Elections, Cassettes, and Universal Audio
By Hilli Katzir and Dan Crosby

In September the Delgados released their fifth album, Universal Audio, which just made Amazon's list of the top 5 Alternative Rock CDs of 2004. This album marked a serious departure from the strings-heavy sound characteristic of their previous work, partly because they wanted to be able to tour without a large entourage. Their North American tour in October and November featured only the Delgados themselves—Emma Pollock and Alun Woodward as co-lead vocalists and guitarists, Stewart Henderson on bass and Paul Savage on drums—along with a cello and violin.

We caught up with Pollock and Woodward at the El Rey Theater in Los Angeles on November 5^th after a delightful acoustic in-store performance at Amoeba Records in Hollywood that afternoon.

Being There
Your new album is really different from your previous ones.  What made you go that direction?

Emma Pollock
We didn't really talk about the new album that much, but whenever it came up in conversation, we all agreed that we didn't really want to go down the same route a third time.  At the end of the day, there's no denying that Great Eastern and Hate share certain sounds.  And then, we'd kind of gone through the whole process of thinking about strings during recording Peloton, and then really going for it in Great Eastern. And then, basically trying to take it even further with Hate.  I think it just worked its course, to be honest.  It just naturally worked itself out. And we just didn't really want to necessarily do that this time around, because at the end of the day, to be in a band, and to continue to be inspired to write new music, you need to have something that excites you, and encourages you to keep doing it. And then the idea of concentrating on the four of us, more than we had been in the past, was something that we just wanted to do. And it kind of encouraged a lot more guitar parts for Alun and I as well, which is really good fun.

Alun Woodward
No, that's right. We have a fear of just repeating ourselves. To my mind, it would have been the easy route just to go and make kind of another string-laden, orchestrated record. And although the record sounds simpler in places, it's kind of not. It's a harder record, to me, than Hate was, in many respects.

BT
Do you worry that you're going to turn people off when you go to a new sound, or are you less concerned about that?

AW
I don't mean to sound obnoxious or anything, but I don't care. If someone's going to get turned off because the guitars are slightly louder, or the vocals are slightly to the front, then I can't help that they're an idiot. They might not like the songs, and that's completely fair enough, I respect that. You can't like everything, we could make a rubbish record, it can happen.

BT
What are each of your favorite songs are on the new album, and why?

EP
I quite like doing a lot of Alun's songs, because if I'm not singing, I can always play more inventive guitar parts, and I quite enjoy that. I quite enjoy playing the guitar for this new album, because we just had more of an opportunity to concentrate on creating melody with the guitar rather than strings. So, I quite like playing stuff like "Get Action!" and "Girls of Valour". Songs like that. Sometimes it's nice not to have to worry about singing, because you can just listen to the whole band. When you sing and play guitar, it tends to take up your whole awareness. I'm not quite as aware of what the rest of the band is doing when I'm concentrating on singing and playing guitar, but when I'm able to step back from the mike and just listen to the whole thing and play guitar, I feel like I'm really getting into the gig.

BT
Yeah, you guys were awesome [at the in-store] today. We really liked the acoustic versions.

EP
Oh, right, good... For a long time, I think, in-stores have always been a bit difficult, because when you do them in places like Tower, which is where we've been mostly in the past, before now, they're quite sterile. And all you see is, you know, this expansive, empty shop, and maybe five, ten people or so. But we've been doing more appearances in independent stores recently, and they've been really, really good fun actually.

AW
The song I like to play most on the record is "Keep on Breathing."  I really like it. I like the way the vocals sound together. I like—similar, I think, to Emma—when we were writing the song, because Emma was singing it all the time, singing in the studio, I can be much more creative, much more inventive with the guitar parts; if you're singing, there's only so much you can really do, when you're creating the song together, when you're writing it. And I like just that it fit well to the way the accordions came in to it.

BT
You know, something you - when you said "bringing the accordions in," and thinking about what you had to say about moving away from the sound of the last three albums—I wondered a few times when I first listened to Universal Audio— if it was clear you were making that conscious move away, but I also wondered if you felt so drawn to that that you couldn't get away from it entirely. You talk about touring without the big entourage, but you've still got the cello, and the violin.

AW
Yeah, I mean, there's cello and violin on the new record. It wasn't like a complete and total break in that respect. It was just more that the focus shifts.  So it shifts from being every song centered, like in Hate, around the string part or brass section or something, vocals or choir maybe.  In this record, they're there to augment, not to lead. It's more about, rather than the choir, it's more about us.  It's more about the guitars and the drums and the piano parts that we write. There will be no desire to become a kind of musical Luddite, to say "We can't use strings in it because we don't use strings". It's more a sense that a couple of places in the record really needed something to be there to add some kind of texture—a cello, a violin, something like that.

BT
When did you guys begin to play, and how did your band form?

EP
It was about ten years ago actually, was when it started. To cut a long story short, I met Paul, who plays drums, and we both went to University together...

BT
Where did you guys go?

EP
Glasgow; it's a west coast university, we met there. [Ed. Emma and Paul are married] Paul was already great friends with Alun and Stewart, and they had already been to school together, and they had already been in a band for a few years. But that band had split up, and they were... they were really quite, well, pissed off, to say the least, about it. They just wanted to form another band. So when I got to know Paul, the main thing that we spoke about was music, when we started getting together. And I ended up being asked if I'd be interested in playing with some of Paul's friends, and I absolutely jumped at the chance, because I'd dreamt of it for a long time. It was such an opportunity, so that was great.

AW
I'd known Stewart since I was nine, and Paul from high school, so to be in a band together; it was great.

BT
What were you guys studying in college, I'd always wondered?

EP
Physics.

AW
Archaeology.

BT
Who else in music today do you guys admire, or consider your influences? Maybe we should first say outside your own label, because that's a separate question. Today or in the past.

AW
It's difficult to know what stuff actually influences you, because, I mean I really love Lee Perry, but I don't hear anything of Lee Perry in the record. But I think where your influences come from; it's more about the touches and the textures...

It's not as if you're listening to their songs, and you think "we'll do that". It's just touches. What I think influences it is bass players, when it's a very complex song. I think that influence just washes over you. You're not observing it; you're never that sure of what directly influences you. It's not that nothing's influenced me, because clearly lots of things have.

I suppose I didn't really help you there.

EP
It's difficult. I mean, I really like PJ Harvey. She's quite talented. I've been a fan of hers since... well, since she started. I think in some respects... I was listening to her when I first started really playing the guitar. Or playing electric guitar; before I played acoustic. She's always been quite inspirational, because I've always got the impression that she hasn't given a fuck about anything except what she wants to do. Unfortunately, she's inspirational but at the same time she's also a quite unhappy character a lot of the time, to be honest, which is a shame. And that always seems to be the way; it always seems to be people who are kind of doing it almost because they have no choice, rather than because they actually love it.

And I've always been a huge New Order fan, which might sound a bit peculiar, given what we do, but they're just so melodic. When I grew up, the first music that ever had a real effect on me, when I was like 16, was New Order. I just loved the kind of exact nature of what they did. I loved the fact that every single sound was precise, had a clear edge to it, and everything was executed absolutely perfectly. I just loved that, and also their very, kind of, absolute approach to music. But over and above that, the sounds... I love the melody, they're a very melodic band at the end of the day.

So I mean yeah, our influences... difficult. I mean, people are clearly influenced by the age they grew up in, musically. But I don't sit down and prepare to write by listening to someone else's records. I don't consciously think about records I like, to emulate them. I just respond to melodies that seem to stick out, and to be worth keeping. The same goes with chords and rhythms. And that's how the entire band works. It's a massive process of elimination, making a record—because you come up with all these ideas, and one by one, you eliminate the ones that aren't really that great. It's really really good, it feels great, when you come across something you love. I think one of the scariest things—because music is very abstract, and that goes for any kind of creative form—if you think music is just okay, then I think that would be very, very disappointing. Because you would never quite know what it feels like to hear music that is absolutely life-changing, almost. So I think it's always equally great to hear music that you absolutely detest, because it lets you know that you still feel something for music. Because, you know, I've met a lot of performers that can go through periods where they have no idea about what they feel about music any more. You can kind of fall in and out of love with it as an art form.

So it's great when the whole band recognizes and agrees that we've come across a fantastic bass line, for example, or a great idea for a harmony. And then, your decisions are easy to make, because all you say is "yeah, sounds brilliant, keep it". And before you know it, you've started getting the song.

BT
So you work together to make new songs?

EP
Well, not from the very start.

BT
How does that work?

EP
There are some bands who will, I'm sure, walk in and pick up their instruments and say "right, let's write songs today," and everybody's present. But Alun and I write on our own, totally independently of each other. That works for us because it takes me quite a long time to come up with the ideas and to recognize whether I like them or not. I can't just say that I like the chord structure, at the moment that creates it, the moment it comes up. I've got to give it a few days, and go back to it and go back to it and go back to it, and then think "yeah, I do quite like that."  So I think we write best if we're given an opportunity to write on our own, at our own pace, and then bring those ideas in to the rest of them; and then everybody can contribute, and then it begins belonging to the band.

BT
You guys are unusual in that you own your own label. How do you guys see yourselves professionally?  Do you see yourselves first and foremost as label managers? How much of your work week does that take up?

AW
I see myself first and foremost as a musician. The stuff with the label is just something I do when I have time. The thing about the label is that when it first started, the four of us had an interest in it, but as time's progressed, you can't be in a band as busy as we are and be good at running a record label. It's simply not what we're thinking about. So for that reason, the thing that I'm constantly focused on is being in a band, playing the songs, making records. So it's not to say I don't think about the label, it's just that it's not possible to focus on the label when you're on tour like this. You can when you're small; I'm sure we did. But tonight—we're dealing with the publishers and stuff, various labels and distributors and stuff and that's all fine, but to be dealing with the mechanics of a release party when you're in the middle of Arizona or something, it's going be too difficult.

BT
Here's a random question: We just had a horrible election on Tuesday. Were you guys around for that, and what did you think of it?

AW
We followed it, when we were in Vancouver. Our totally European perspective: I can't fathom out how someone who presents himself—his campaign seemed to be like "I'm a dumbass, vote for me, I know I'm a dumbass". That seemed to be what he was saying, to me. I can't believe that in all those televised debates where he stood and looked like a chimp, he was made to look foolish on a number of occasions, and people will still vote for him. That suggests that there's a large percentage of the population of America that's just really fucked up.

Then again, if I have a criticism of Western—and by that I mean Britain and the States—foreign policy, it's to get involved where it’s none of their business. Who you vote for is none of my business, essentially. If that was the American foreign policy, and the British foreign policy, we'd probably live in a far more peaceful, safer world.

I think it’s unfathomable that he won the election.

BT
I wonder what you thought of the process. I've never been in Britain during an election. Being close by, and seeing the sort of madness that we have for a couple of days—if that struck you at all.

EP
That isn't so different from Britain, at the end of the day. It can be caught up in the same way in an election as the States was during this. Everyone's going to the TV throughout the night, and I mean it's the same thing at the end of the day. But what I really found hard to understand was why the electoral vote system differed from state to state. Why, if one of the parties won by 51%, why is it they carry away 100% of their electoral votes, while in another state they carry away 51% of the electoral votes, which is exactly the way it should be. And I find that extremely hard to understand, because then it becomes a game of identifying the states at the margin, that you really, really, really have to actually win in order take away the electoral votes, and those that maybe you don't have to actually worry about so much, because you're already going to get a fair percentage of them anyway. And so it would seem to skew where the parties will put a lot of money as the campaigns end.

And also the fact that everyone on the east and west seaboards are all thinking a great deal about the whole thing, and thinking with a lot of common sense and a lot of logic. And it almost seems to me that the rest of the country is saying, "we simply don't think about it". It's not a case of, "we're not this and this". It's a case of "what did my family do before me, what are my neighbors gonna do?".  Because they don't have the courage to trust their intellect. It really does seem like that, it seems to be just, not enough thought. Probably not enough information from the local media either, to offer any real candidate, because of the bias presented. But I don't know, that's just speculation.

BT
Going back to music a little bit, I was really surprised and pleased a month or so ago, when Chemikal's new web site went up, and you could buy almost anything in your back catalog electronically—and not only electronically, but in uncompressed, unrestricted...

EP
Yeah...

BT
And I don't even know if you guys know this, but in America anyway, you have two albums on the iTunes music store, and I think the "Coming in from the Cold" single, and nothing else. I just wonder what you guys think about online music.

EP
It's clearly the way that things are going to go now, because one, people have less time to shop, and secondly, where there's an opportunity to buy music without having to actually go to the effort of going to the shop... I think that's going to be great for the world market largely, because it means that I have the technology to play those files, and reach the world via the internet—it's certainly more available around the world than actual, physical records are, which is absolutely great. It means that hopefully all of these bands will be able to take advantage of the market that they just wouldn't have got to before. But saying that, it's not that easy for us to encourage sales on our own site at the moment, and that is still a very, very slow, hopefully growing, market. At the moment, sites like iTunes and the other major retailers on the internet are basically taking the lion's share of the market. So just like anything to do with the internet, the biggest problem is making people aware that you're there, and that people who do want to buy Delgados albums, and who are in a part of the world that doesn't really stock it in a local store where they can come to our record, can come to our web site and buy it—it's difficult getting that information out to people, that's the main problem. It's going to be fine, but it's still in its growing stages, I think.

AW
I think in general, if you buy music online you're a loser, and you should only buy it on cassette, any time it's available. [laughter]

EP
The demise of the cassette started the decline of music...

AW
That's why I was really pleased when Poland joined the EU, because we were entirely new to Poland, the home of the cassette. We had 500 cassettes recorded of a Mogwai album. I was talking to this Polish distributor—we couldn't get rid of them in the UK, or anywhere else in the world—I was speaking to him and he said "you know what would be really nice to sell here, is the cassette". People there are really into cassettes, actually. I told him we had 500 or 700 recordings, and he said "Fucking yessss!" [general laughter] They bought them all! Every single one, yeah.

EP
That's funny, I didn't know that.

AW
The whole thing about music and the internet is great. I think that over time people will realize that if they go to these free sites, where they can get music for nothing, if people will do that they have to be aware of the consequences. If 30% of the people who were going to buy our music, get it online for free, we're fucked. We'll go out of business as a band. We could no longer survive. It's a simple question: is music worth buying? I think most people also think it is. If you make an easy way for kids to buy music, then they will buy it. At least I hope.

BT
And of course there is the other side to getting it free online, which is: when I first heard of the Delgados, the first thing I did was go download songs off some free site, and then I ended up buying all the albums, right?  Which might not have happened if there hadn't been an easy way...

AW
That's why I see it as a radio kind of thing, but on demand.

BT
What do you find the most challenging about being an independent band, and about having your own label?

EP
There's a list as long as all of our arms put together! Trying to balance the fact that we are a company that has to be able to make enough money to continue with the fact that we're trying to put out music that means something, that we love, and that we want to get out to the rest of the world.  That is one of the most difficult things to do: to try to make a business out of what is essentially an art form. We're not making widgets, you know. We're not making something that means nothing, but is needed. Music essentially means everything but isn't needed. That's pretty much the unfortunate thing. Music is needed in general, but the problem with individual albums, individual acts, is that usually you've got to try to give people a reason to buy your records in lieu of the other record company's records. That is really difficult without an actual lot of money, because unfortunately people won't know to buy your records unless you can afford to tell them. There's a lot of difficulties. There's not a lot of radio play available anywhere for an independent band. Press seems to be getting more and more diminished. Retail as well, retail is getting more difficult, because if you want to get a prime spot and location, if you want them to really start selling your records, you've got to pay for it.

AW
I think as well—I completely agree with what Emma said, but on a completely different level—when you have your own record label and you're in your own band, who stops you halfway through the record and says "that sounds really shite, by the way."  I mean, it's that kind of idea. We write the songs, we make the record, we market the record. Sometimes it would be great if we had someone in there just like, saying "maybe that is not the best way to market this.”  Basically the buck stops with us. That can be quite a great feeling when it comes off, and you do something and you market your record just that way, and you really see it paying dividends. You might see a spike in the sales because of something you've done. Sales increase just for that month, or whatever. But it's quite tough when you're on your own all the time.


The Delgados' North American tour is over, and they are currently touring Europe and preparing for Japan and Australia in the spring.  We did get to talk to Stewart and Paul off the record after the show; if you get a chance to as well, be sure to ask Stewart about his unintentional crowd surfing experiences...

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